Guidance From The Wise Ones

[Dee]

From the ongoing documentary The 7-Ups:

To spend time with a child is to dwell under the terms of an uneasy truce between the possibility of the present and the inevitability of the future. Our deepest hope for the children we love is that they will enjoy the liberties of an open-ended destiny, that their desires will be given the free play they deserve, that the circumstances of their birth and upbringing will be felt as opportunities rather than encumbrances; our greatest fear is that they will feel thwarted by forces beyond their control. At the same time, we can’t help poring over their faces and gestures for any signals of eventuality — the trace hints and betrayals of what will emerge in time as their character, their plot, their fate. And what we project forward for the children in our midst can rarely be disentangled from what we project backward for ourselves.

This is a very heartbreaking truth, it just cuts too deep with its honesty. Beautifully eloquently put in words.

[DawnFae]

From the ongoing documentary The 7-Ups:

To spend time with a child is to dwell under the terms of an uneasy truce between the possibility of the present and the inevitability of the future. Our deepest hope for the children we love is that they will enjoy the liberties of an open-ended destiny, that their desires will be given the free play they deserve, that the circumstances of their birth and upbringing will be felt as opportunities rather than encumbrances; our greatest fear is that they will feel thwarted by forces beyond their control. At the same time, we can’t help poring over their faces and gestures for any signals of eventuality — the trace hints and betrayals of what will emerge in time as their character, their plot, their fate. And what we project forward for the children in our midst can rarely be disentangled from what we project backward for ourselves.

This is a very heartbreaking truth, it just cuts too deep with its honesty. Beautifully eloquently put in words.

Yes to all the above!

The hopes and the dreams most people had as children seemed so real and yet most of grown ups end up disillusioned even when they reach some of their goals. Maybe the idea we have of success and achievement is the problem.
How will a child develop in the presence of the heartbreak associated with thwarted dreams and hopes, also loss and sometimes even tragedy?
A loved child is always lucky despite what may befall him / her in life. I think that not having a loving parent or guardian / mentor is the most painful thing a child can face in life. Yet adversity produced great men and women and sometimes the opposite of that. Is it character or resilience or something we don't know?
I wish all children wise guidance and love so they can discover a beautiful life and learn to be strong in the face of adversity and tragic events because these are part of life and perhaps they are the training life puts in our way so we can grow and be wise.

[Dee]

Love and guidance... the two crucial things all children should be wrapped in, so true. Yet, guidance is such a complicated beast. Should we guide children to go down a path that we think is best for them? Or should we support them to achieve what they think is best for them, even if we think they’re making a mistake? Should we eat them make their own mistakes? How much do we interfere? When should we step back? When to apply tough love? Is tough love ever a good thing? Shouldn’t we just provide endless unconditional love? Oh the dilemmas are endless.

[DawnFae]

Love and guidance... the two crucial things all children should be wrapped in, so true. Yet, guidance is such a complicated beast. Should we guide children to go down a path that we think is best for them? Or should we support them to achieve what they think is best for them, even if we think they’re making a mistake? Should we eat them make their own mistakes? How much do we interfere? When should we step back? When to apply tough love? Is touh love ever a good thing? Shouldn’t we just provide endless unconditional love? Oh the dilemmas are endless.

You are right, the dilemmas are endless.
A guidance that leaves room for self discovery?
There are a lot of rules imposed upon us by the society in which we live, there are also laws and there is some hard earned wisdom from life experiences to at least show what can work and what can't.
Yet, young people will still want to go for the things they think are "cool" or pleasant for them. Often, dangers are overlooked: like being in bad company and not seeing that some people out there are predators...
It became "cool" to disrespect teachers and parents or authority figures in general and that can't be good either. Unconditional love seems to be difficult for most people. From what I have seen and experienced, a relationship of love and trust helps a lot but it is not always easy to navigate the conflicts that stem from different opinions, beliefs, personal preferences and goals.
Children will make their own mistakes and hopefully learn from them.
Some cultures give the advice that when the children grow up, the parents need to treat them as friends.
No matter how we look at it, there will always be challenges and tough decisions for parents.

[Dee]

There's so much to worry about when you have children...And it never ever stops. I think we do treat our grown up children as friends most of the time, except for when they regress to being messy and lazy teenagers. Oh, and the times when they regress to being children who just need their mom and dad.

The society/culture has changed so much that I'm often challenged to understand the youth. Some of the challenges I had to face ended up changing my views quite drastically. Other challenges just make me feel heartbroken for my kids' generation.

Ultimately, we can only do our very best, even if sometimes that's not good enough. I always tell my children, that even when we get something wrong, because we don't fully understand, we are always on their side and want the best for them. We want them to succeed in their endeavours and we want to protect them from harm. Everything we ever say and do comes from a place of love. But we are only human and we might not always be right. Though, quite frankly, we usually are.

[Lori]

This raising children stuff is awesome in its true meaning and sometimes debilitating and fearsome in its true meaning. A life in your hand? Blown into your world like a dandelion gone to seed? That is a huge responsibility. I love what you all have said above and it is so true - guidance and a long leash so discovery happens. Beyond all, LOVE is a balm that fills in all the cracks and sometimes inadequate places. Yet, even in the best environment love will carry one child and not the other. We are incredible and interesting beings! I am slain with this little grandchild who raises all of these questions again in my head and heart. There is wisdom in time and experience, but this little reed is so tender, tiny, vulnerable, and infused with some strange magic truly...and it is so unbelievably huge to view it so personally again! I’m a puddle...

[Lori]

For those of you who haven’t watched the 7-Up series which follows a group of kids to adulthood, I highly recommend it. It is a British series and the next and perhaps final installment comes out in Feb. I think!

[Moonchime]

Ah I followed it Lori for quite a few programmes but have not yet watched the last one. Perhaps this will prompt me to do so.

Strange coincidence this conversation - just before I logged on I finished reading "Battle hymn of the Tiger Mother" which is a book all about the differences between Chinese and Western parenting styles. It is a hugely thought provoking book, bringing into question assumed Western methods of instilling confidence in children versus the much stricter/less free Chinese approach.
It would be a great book for the the Reading thread - if anyone was willing to read!! (Dee you still have to finish Pigeon English first though).

It challenges the approach of praising children for everything regardless of effort and achievement and promotes the idea that hard work and dogged practice will eventually bring success resulting in real pride and confidence. I'm not putting it all that well but it certainly makes you think - whether you are repelled by the approach taken by Amy Chua or in awe - both her daughters are very high achievers but there was certainly a price to pay.

As has already been stated so well, love is all important, although of course, it doesn't stop you making mistakes, it merely means those mistakes come from the heart with the best of intentions, and quite honestly what else can anyone do except what they believe to be the best in the circumstances? Eventually children will gain enough maturity to understand some of the stances their parents took even if they don't agree with them. Then they will bring up their own children trying to avoid the mistakes of their parents and in so doing will make mistakes all of their own. Hopefully the child that knows that it is loved will weather the storms.

[DawnFae]

[Dee]

The book sounds interesting indeed, Mz Moonchime.

I have a feeling the right way is somewhere in between the two approaches... Praising all the becomes meaningless. Not praising enough can make your child feel that they are never good enough. That might drive some to work even harder, but it might also make some give up altogether. You have to tailor your approach to the child really. I don’t believe there are global rules and methods that would just magically work for everyone!

Note to self: Bloody hell, get on with Pigeon English!!!

[Moonchime]

I think the thing is that the "middle way" would be considered the "Western" approach generally. I don't think the "Chinese" approach can brook that moderation; the same way the parents of some high achievers dedicate everything to gaining a level of excellence. One example that comes to mind is Michael Jackson's dad - he drove those kids hard and who knows whether they would have achieved the same without him; well I suspect we may never know. Of course whether they were happier or not - there's the million dollar question.

Anyway back to Pigeon English

Spoiler:

[Dee]

I think the thing is that the "middle way" would be considered the "Western" approach generally. I don't think the "Chinese" approach can brook that moderation; the same way the parents of some high achievers dedicate everything to gaining a level of excellence. One example that comes to mind is Michael Jackson's dad - he drove those kids hard and who knows whether they would have achieved the same without him; well I suspect we may never know. Of course whether they were happier or not - there's the million dollar question.

Well, I often think any extreme measures with children are most likely going to cause some damage... Also, kids are so different. What works very well with one, won’t work at all with another, even in the sand family.

Michael Jackson’s dad has done irreparable damage, I believe, and he played a big part in what happened to Michael later. Robbing him of his childhood, something eventually had to give.

Anyway back to Pigeon English

Spoiler:

Lol

Spoiler: