Movie #5 A Ghost Story

[Dee]

This stuck a knife in my chest, because all my elderly Mom ever says is, "When are the kids coming to visit?"

Oh, NR, that is just so heartbreakingly sad.

[Dee]

"... he finally understood that the light and love he had been looking for for centuries were inside his own heart and consciousness and it that moment the “light door” opened. This time around he was ready to move on, to transcend his own prison of thoughts about what home and love are. Well this is how I interpret it anyway…"

~DF

I've just read the Virginia Wolf short story you've linked us to, DF, and now I understand more what you've meant here.
"The light in the heart". Hold onto that, not search for it in the past. In a way this reaches beyond the message of Shadowlands "The pain now is part of the happiness then". It almost negates the pain by saying we are bringing it onto ourselves by fixating on the past, the lost happiness, and how we cannot turn back time. Instead it guides our mind to the light, the gifts we have received. Not the memories themselves which are tainted with pain as they are now gone, but the feeling of love itself that still remains and unaffected by the passing of time.

The way VW has described the couple searching the house for what they've "lost", that was just like how C was moving around the place...
Thanks for the link, DF, and making this very interesting connection.

[Dee]

Thanks for including the transcript for the nihilist's monoluge, Lori, and the lyrics of the song. I'm planning to look at those a bit more closely in the next few days.

[Dee]

Mother Teresa: "Yesterday is gone. Tomorrow has not yet come. We have only today. Let us begin."

It sounds so easy, doesn't it? And maybe it is.

[Dee]

Here's another interview that shed some light into the themes and how the director wanted things to be in his own words. Very interesting stuff: nothing is permanent, nothing is really ours on this planet and I add "on this side of the veil" to it...

https://www.vox.com/summer-movies/2017/ ... -interview

Out of all the interviews, for me this has been the most informative and most interesting. Thank you, DF. Loved this:


I suppose inasmuch as I do feel that my desire to haunt my wife — which sounds really creepy now that I'm saying it — after I'm gone is an extension of my ego, this movie is a recognition of the fact that I need to let go of that. I need to let go of my ego, because ultimately it's not going to matter. Whatever does happen next is going to be another realm of existence. Or there's really nothing at all.

Whatever that may be, that nothingness or that next realm of existence will not be concerned with what is happening on earth. It'll be something separate, I presume. Maybe not. Maybe we'll die and we'll all just be stuck here hanging around, unable to communicate with anybody, and it'll be really sad.

But I do feel like realizing and embracing the concept of letting go of the physical, letting go of the immediate temporal realities around us, is an important thing. Just to be able to take that step back and say, “These things will pass, and I need to be okay with that.”

And this is exactly how I feel about this whole Ghost business:

You don't know what it is. It could be some scientifically quantifiable remnant of energy that is left behind, which I subscribe to. I do believe that, that makes sense to me. I don't know how to quantify it scientifically, but I believe science could one day figure out a way to explain those presences that we feel in rooms or in houses or in every space that we occupy.

You know, I say I don't believe in ghosts — but that's because I've never seen what we see in movies. I've never seen a phantom in the night. I've never seen an entire shelf get knocked over and all the plates shatter on the ground. But I am open to it.

And I also believe that that doesn't have to happen for those presences to be real, because I have gone into rooms that feel sad. That feel uncomfortable. And I feel there must be a reason.

'The Shining' had the best description of it, which is that if you burn toast in a room, you're gonna smell that toast. And I feel like that is something that exists in the world. When someone leaves a room they leave a little bit of themselves behind, regardless of how minuscule that might be. And sometimes they'll leave enough behind that you feel it, and maybe there's more to it than that. And maybe there's less to it than that. But I do subscribe to that because of the potential of that idea.

https://www.vox.com/summer-movies/2017/ ... -interview

[Dee]

A live performance of "I Get Overwhelmed", in case anyone else was wondering what Daniel Hart and his band look like. I wasn't expecting a real violin to turn up, but it makes it even better. He's one accomplished player!

[Lori]

Some super serious thoughts going on here about the big questions. It's all so strange...the very fact we are these complex thinking breathing creative beings surpasses understanding. That there is something in addition is a reach or not a reach, considering how little we comprehend about the big picture - universe, our brains, and spirits. The subtle undercurrent of certain powers beyond our ken or behind a veil - knowing when a loved one passes for instance before you are told - speaks of something we can't track yet but does exist on some level.

The lyrics to the song are odd to me - I get the everyday voice in a head simultaneously acknowledging the crazy meaningless things we get buried in and yet surfacing for moments and grasping the edges of the meaning of life, understanding that it is brief and we have but one. The song mixes shallow images with deep ones.

[Lori]

I've just read the Virginia Wolf short story you've linked us to, DF, and now I understand more what you've meant here.
"The light in the heart". Hold onto that, not search for it in the past. In a way this reaches beyond the message of Shadowlands "The pain now is part of the happiness then". It almost negates the pain by saying we are bringing it onto ourselves by fixating on the past, the lost happiness, and how we cannot turn back time. Instead it guides our mind to the light, the gifts we have received. Not the memories themselves which are tainted with pain as they are now gone, but the feeling of love itself that still remains and unaffected by the passing of time.

THIS. In a perfect existence in calm waters, isn't it so? That should be the manifestation of ultimate love in a life. Yet, there is a word...bittersweet...and I think as humans we will always cling to the past. How can we not? Especially if one has been lucky enough to love deeply. I do adore the concept and I believe in it to the extent that when someone has experienced love on a deep level, it cannot be taken away and becomes part of a person's fiber. It is something that forms into a backbone that aids in facing the solitary future regarding loss. It is a gift that is accessed subconsciously every day of our waking lives even prior to experiencing this kind of loss. Yes, we are guided to the "light and gifts we have received" on some fundamental level. Still, bittersweet the absence of such a beloved part of life when it is hidden away behind some crazy veil (be it nothing at all or an afterlife) and we must go on...

[Dee]

...when someone has experienced love on a deep level, it cannot be taken away and becomes part of a person's fiber. It is something that forms into a backbone that aids in facing the solitary future regarding loss. It is a gift that is accessed subconsciously every day of our waking lives even prior to experiencing this kind of loss...

~ Lori

Yes. This is at the heart of the film, that THIS is beautiful, and THIS should be enough. Enough for the one left behind, and enough for the one dying, to make their peace with their life coming to its end.

But like you said, Lori, it's easier said than done, to accept that the source of all this love is finite in their physical form. In most cases someone gets left behind, and needs to find a way to carry on living without the other. Suddenly there is despair: "But how can I go on without you?" It feels like the pool of love will dry up with the source cut off. But the film challenges us to view this differently.
Love will not evaporate from this pool without the flow cut off. Once the pool is full, it stays full forever. ( Light in the heart.) Even if there won't be another river to flow into it. (Which clearly won't, for the departed, but for the one left behind, most likely there will be.)

[Dee]

The lyrics to the song are odd to me - I get the everyday voice in a head simultaneously acknowledging the crazy meaningless things we get buried in and yet surfacing for moments and grasping the edges of the meaning of life, understanding that it is brief and we have but one. The song mixes shallow images with deep ones.

~ Lori

I think you've summed that up very well, Lori. I don't actually think the lyrics fit the film very well. The mood of the song, and the depression around and following a break up or separation (by death?), the meaningless life afterwards, the confusion and loss of direction, yes that works.

But it's interesting that this is the song C has written and showed his wife, just as they were about to leave for a new home, a new chapter in their lives. It seemed to me that despite their obviously deep love for each other, the relationship had serious problems. She wasn't happy. She wanted to move, he didn't. I think that was a manifestation of some deeper issues. I also thought that this song reflected his deepest fears of losing her. (Which actually came to pass in a way he didn't expect.) It was also telling that M didn't say anything to him after he'd played her the song. She just looked sad. Like she understood what fears were behind the song.

[Dee]

Regarding the nihilist rant...he says in the middle "Let's leave love out of this."
Well, that's what's wrong with the entire rant. Not like he was wrong about life on Earth coming to its end, and the universe disappearing into a black hole. But he was wrong about the pointlessness of it, because he insisted on taking out the one ingredient of life that makes everything worthwhile, no matter how small, in the great scheme of things.

Basically the guy delivering the monologue was just a mouthy, attention seeking asshole. Is what I think.

[NurseRatched]

You don't know what it is. It could be some scientifically quantifiable remnant of energy that is left behind, which I subscribe to. I do believe that, that makes sense to me. I don't know how to quantify it scientifically, but I believe science could one day figure out a way to explain those presences that we feel in rooms or in houses or in every space that we occupy.

You know, I say I don't believe in ghosts — but that's because I've never seen what we see in movies. I've never seen a phantom in the night. I've never seen an entire shelf get knocked over and all the plates shatter on the ground. But I am open to it.

And I also believe that that doesn't have to happen for those presences to be real, because I have gone into rooms that feel sad. That feel uncomfortable. And I feel there must be a reason.

'The Shining' had the best description of it, which is that if you burn toast in a room, you're gonna smell that toast. And I feel like that is something that exists in the world. When someone leaves a room they leave a little bit of themselves behind, regardless of how minuscule that might be. And sometimes they'll leave enough behind that you feel it, and maybe there's more to it than that. And maybe there's less to it than that. But I do subscribe to that because of the potential of that idea.

https://www.vox.com/summer-movies/2017/ ... -interview

This whole passage is exactly how I feel, too. We're all on this never-ending chain of future, present and past. I think it's just impossible to separate it out. If you've ever witnessed someone dying, the air feels dynamic and the room feels full. It really does. There has to be something to our souls, right? And the living see connections to their loved one everywhere; real or imagined? Does traumatic death, essentially a premature amputation of your loved one, cause more ghostly unrest than a long, drawn out death (that feels more like a gift/reprieve)? And is the "ghostly unrest" really just those left behind pulling on the dead, trying to resurrect them? Or is it a soul adrift, wondering how it got on the other side of the veil? When he talks about going into a room and feeling sadness or discomfort, what is that? We've all felt it. Intriguing!