11x16 ‘Acts of God’

[Dee]

Our heroes are trapped in situations beyond their control. Everyone they've worked so hard to protect is at risk as danger baits them at every turn. All is at stake. Now, they must decide who and what are worth saving. Each decision comes with its own deadly ramifications.

[Dee]

Second mid-season finale... Only eight episodes left after this to put this baby to bed.

I thought the episode was great. Top marks. The suspense was intense, our Band of Bandits (Aaron, Gabe and Daryl) awesome as ever. Best scene in the episode for me was the three of them sensing the soldiers were about to turn on them, and the perfect little team they are, they took out all the soldiers instead. Lance is a fabulous villain. His face when Daryl answered the radio, and when Daryl shot him! Priceless. The ending of the episode - utterly terrifying. What an unexpected twist! But Leah is finally gone, oh hallelujah. That's a very satisfying outcome.

I know some people criticise the show for having already revealed the planned Maggie/Negan spinoff, so many viewers would have known Maggie would survive her little tiff with Leah. But actually, just following the character's ark, it was clear Maggie wouldn't die at this juncture. She's also one of the three main characters now, so no way. Knowing she was "safe" didn't take anything from the episode from me. If anything, it made me enjoy it more, because at least I didn't have to worry so much about her.

I also disagree with the criticism that only minor characters die these days. Thank god! I don't want any more of TF to die, we have lost so many dear characters already. I don't want this last stretch of story to be about who survives, I'd like it to be about how they will live from here onwards.

The Leah/Maggie fight was still very suspenseful for me, ....because it was becoming increasingly clear that Daryl would need to turn up to intervene and help Maggie, and I was very anxious about how that would go down. In the end, it all happened without a single word spoken, Leah taken out as a matter of fact. Daryl obviously no longer cares, and that was a relief for me. I didn't want him to have to go through yet another emotional turmoil. I think at the moment when Leah chose her people over Daryl, after she'd killed Pope, Daryl knew that they had no possible future together, in any shape or form. So he simply corrected a stupid and naive mistake in this episode, of letting Leah go previously. She's run out of chances. He was done with her forever pushing him to choose between her and his family. Good riddance. Leah was a very interesting character, but I couldn't stand her around Daryl, she was no good for him. Now we can finally move on and pretend she never existed.

Half of our Team Family are about to ride out together from the CW on a mission to find the missing people, and the other half of our Group are now fugitives from the CW. They're bound to team up soon? The horrifying part is that all their children are still back at the Commonwealth. Will Auntie Carol save them all?

I can't wait to see what happens next. In spite of a couple of weaker episodes, I really enjoyed this middle section. And I still bloody love this show. Warts and all.

[Lori]

Second mid-season finale... Only eight episodes left after this to put this baby to bed.

What?!!! No more dripping flesh and gravelly "rawrs"? No more ear peeking out and zero love life? Hmm...

I thought the episode was great. Top marks. The suspense was intense, our Band of Bandits (Aaron, Gabe and Daryl) awesome as ever. Best scene in the episode for me was the three of them sensing the soldiers were about to turn on them, and the perfect little team they are, they took out all the soldiers instead. Lance is a fabulous villain. His face when Daryl answered the radio, and when Daryl shot him! Priceless. The ending of the episode - utterly terrifying. What an unexpected twist! But Leah is finally gone, oh hallelujah. That's a very satisfying outcome.

It was a great episode full of intelligent suspense and apt responses. The "Band of Bandits" was stellar!

I know some people criticise the show for having already revealed the planned Maggie/Negan spinoff, so many viewers would have known Maggie would survive her little tiff with Leah. But actually, just following the character's ark, it was clear Maggie wouldn't die at this juncture. She's also one of the three main characters now, so no way. Knowing she was "safe" didn't take anything from the episode from me. If anything, it made me enjoy it more, because at least I didn't have to worry so much about her.

I don't follow any news, spoilers, previews on this show, as you know because it ruins it for me. I had no idea there was a Maggie/Negan spinoff. Well, in retrospect I suppose I knew but didn't process it. Goodness! I am interested where this will go in spite of my stubborn belief Negan cannot redeem himself. I would need a massive brain tumor to explain it all. Massive emotional trauma doesn't cut it as they've all experienced this or worse and didn't fall to his level. Enjoying torturing is a solid line. Feeling vindicated while ending a life that has decimated yours is different I think.

I'm not even versed on the Daryl/Carol spinoff. This pairing is lukewarm for me at this point, sorry to report, as Carol has felt like basic dishwater to me for some time. It was odd that her opus with the Whisperers and Alpha was fantastic on one hand and rather off-putting for her character as well. I'm wondering if Melissa McBride's acting is at fault for me, personally. Granted, her character has had a really interesting well-rounded arc, but the dour stilted performance has been underwhelming for me since. Perhaps another actress would pluck my heartstrings better and pique my interest in her story. It is one that has been told more than most in the series.

I also disagree with the criticism that only minor characters die these days. Thank god! I don't want any more of TF to die, we have lost so many dear characters already. I don't want this last stretch of story to be about who survives, I'd like it to be about how they will live from here onwards.

The Leah/Maggie fight was still very suspenseful for me, ...

I will interject here before involving Daryl. This was one of the best girl fight scenes I think I've ever seen. Some of Maggie's dialog was iffy and odd, but both women are seasoned strong fighters and it was choreographed wonderfully. It is apt that the one protecting a group of people attempting a loosely moral existence survived versus the one who lost "her family" that really was not a family at all - it was an army with all that entails, understanding that service members consider themselves a family of sorts but it didn't seem to involve family units, etc., simply assassins. Good riddance Leah! You and your coiffed blond locks in an apocalypse are no more! (And your boyfriend shot ya!)

...because it was becoming increasingly clear that Daryl would need to turn up to intervene and help Maggie, and I was very anxious about how that would go down. In the end, it all happened without a single word spoken, Leah taken out as a matter of fact. Daryl obviously no longer cares, and that was a relief for me. I didn't want him to have to go through yet another emotional turmoil. I think at the moment when Leah chose her people over Daryl, after she'd killed Pope, Daryl knew that they had no possible future together, in any shape or form. So he simply corrected a stupid and naive mistake in this episode, of letting Leah go previously. She's run out of chances. He was done with her forever pushing him to choose between her and his family. Good riddance. Leah was a very interesting character, but I couldn't stand her around Daryl, she was no good for him. Now we can finally move on and pretend she never existed.

Ha! Let's do just that. I loved that Daryl was the one to put her down with a single shot without a word and without hesitation. Really, Maggie and Daryl should be the spinoff in my mind. They look like brother and sister, and would be quite a team in the next incarnation. I assume you disagree vehemently. I'm not suggesting a romance, but if they even hint at sexual tension between Maggie and Negan I am going to hurl. I'm not saying I am committing to watching, but may give it a go out of curiosity.

Half of our Team Family are about to ride out together from the CW on a mission to find the missing people, and the other half of our Group are now fugitives from the CW. They're bound to team up soon? The horrifying part is that all their children are still back at the Commonwealth. Will Auntie Carol save them all?

No doubt. She will probably work up some poison pie in the kitchen and smile as she serves it...without a hairnet.

I can't wait to see what happens next. In spite of a couple of weaker episodes, I really enjoyed this middle section. And I still bloody love this show. Warts and all.

I enjoyed a few episodes and held my nose during so much of the rest. I have faith that with the series winding up, they've concentrated a lot of their great ideas into the ending. I suppose Connie and Daryl are not to be much more than unrequited closeness unless she is trotting along in the spin-off. It is somewhat unfortunate the writers needed to end this thing with the spinoffs in mind. It does a dis-service to their cash cow and fans. I may be speaking prematurely, but it is loooong past time for the Connie/Daryl story to be intensely dealt with. It nearly doesn't matter at this point as they have so much busy work to attend to with the conflicts. This beautiful boat never seemed to get its final coat of wax to sail.

Looking forward to the final episodes!

[Dee]

I don't follow any news, spoilers, previews on this show, as you know because it ruins it for me. I had no idea there was a Maggie/Negan spinoff. Well, in retrospect I suppose I knew but didn't process it. Goodness! I am interested where this will go in spite of my stubborn belief Negan cannot redeem himself. I would need a massive brain tumor to explain it all. Massive emotional trauma doesn't cut it as they've all experienced this or worse and didn't fall to his level. Enjoying torturing is a solid line. Feeling vindicated while ending a life that has decimated yours is different I think.

I partially agree with you but I think there is still a way for Negan to redeem himself, and that’s what I’m hoping the spin-off will be about. My prediction (and I haven’t seen any spoilers so this is PURE SPECULATION) is that young Hershel might get taken hostage at the end of the season, perhaps by Lance. And Negan’s wife, Annie, will die in the fighting against the Commonwealth. So Negan will be heartbroken, nothing to keep him here, so he will offer to go with Maggie to help her get Hershel back. And he might die in this mission. In fact I think he should die in this mission, as the character can only be redeemed if his last act before he dies will be a sacrifice, a noble act, giving his life voluntarily to save the boy. It’s very important that the character will finally die, and that he will die a good death.

I'm not even versed on the Daryl/Carol spinoff. This pairing is lukewarm for me at this point, sorry to report, as Carol has felt like basic dishwater to me for some time. It was odd that her opus with the Whisperers and Alpha was fantastic on one hand and rather off-putting for her character as well. I'm wondering if Melissa McBride's acting is at fault for me, personally. Granted, her character has had a really interesting well-rounded arc, but the dour stilted performance has been underwhelming for me since. Perhaps another actress would pluck my heartstrings better and pique my interest in her story. It is one that has been told more than most in the series.

I like Melissa, and like her portrayal of Carol. I tend to agree that the last big arc she had with Alpha, this all consuming need for revenge, was not a very nice arc for the character. Nevertheless I found it a fascinating arc to watch. I still like her friendship with Daryl, though we haven’t seen much of that lately. I like her best with Ezekiel, that relationship is one of my all time TWD favourite.

Regarding the Daryl/Carol spin-off, that’s now not happening as was planned, as Melissa has pulled out from the project, she needs a break. She might rejoin the universe at some later point but this spin-off will be Daryl only… hopefully travelling with Connie? That’s just my secret hope, again, nothing is known about this spin-off except that it will be filmed in Europe.

[Dee]

I loved that Daryl was the one to put her down with a single shot without a word and without hesitation.

Total agreement. Good riddance. I also agreed with all you said about Leah above and her so called “family”. This family’s way of life was attacking other groups, killing them, taking over their supplies and lodgings. And they were happily testing Leah and Daryl by setting them both on fire, they didn’t really care about each other at all.

Really, Maggie and Daryl should be the spinoff in my mind. They look like brother and sister, and would be quite a team in the next incarnation. I assume you disagree vehemently.

I don’t, actually. I very much like their bond too. Though for a successful spin-off, there should be either some tension or some conflict between the two leads. That’s why Daryl and Carol wouldn’t have worked all that well, because we have seen them resolve their issues, especially after they’d found out both Magna and Connie have survived the cave incident, so Carol basically got away with her recklessness. Daryl and Carol probably couldn’t have carried a mini series together, unless they were going to meet some very interesting new people.

Daryl and Maggie kind of the same, their relationship is strong and beautiful but not particularly interesting to watch.

He’d need to be together with either an adversary such as Negan, in a reluctant alliance, thrown together for a mission, - but he’s already been paired with Maggie for this very good reason.
That leaves Daryl to go off either on his own, or with a potential romantic interest, which would create spice and fun to whatever the main mission will be. So this is a big opening for Connie to join this spin-off.

I'm not suggesting a romance, but if they even hint at sexual tension between Maggie and Negan I am going to hurl.

I don’t think this is a direction they’d ever consider. It would be of very bad taste and most fans would loathe to see it, - well, except for a few sickos. It’s an absolute NO WAY IN HELL in my view. Most likely scenario is that they will be somehow forced to work together. Maggie trying to find her son and a grieving Negan trying to help her, that could be a very good story.

I'm not saying I am committing to watching, but may give it a go out of curiosity.

lol, I appreciate that. I’m DEFINITELY watching both of these spin-offs.

I enjoyed a few episodes and held my nose during so much of the rest. I have faith that with the series winding up, they've concentrated a lot of their great ideas into the ending. I suppose Connie and Daryl are not to be much more than unrequited closeness unless she is trotting along in the spin-off.

Fingers crossed.

It is somewhat unfortunate the writers needed to end this thing with the spinoffs in mind. It does a dis-service to their cash cow and fans.

Very misfortunate indeed. The business side of this show has all been rather questionable. Art versus business…. Not always the art winning out, sadly.

I may be speaking prematurely, but it is loooong past time for the Connie/Daryl story to be intensely dealt with. It nearly doesn't matter at this point as they have so much busy work to attend to with the conflicts. This beautiful boat never seemed to get its final coat of wax to sail.

It’s been a massive failing. Instead of building the Connie/Daryl love story that has captured most fans’ heart, they’ve thrown Leah as the spanner in the works, which was a huge, huge mistake. Such a stupid decision. Nothing they can do about it now, what is done is done, but the spin-off could still remedy their mistake somewhat. In most ways it’s too late, because it has messed with the pure innocence of Daryl’s relationship with Connie, knowing he had one with Leah. For a character who’s not had a romantic relationship on the show in 10+ years, because of his multitude of issues, (came close with Beth but then of course they had to kill her off to give Daryl three seasons worth of man pain ). Everyone wanted to see IN DETAIL what building a relationship would be like for Daryl. And they were doing so well. I loved it. Then out of the blue they gave us the fucking Leah story.


Looking forward to the final episodes!

Oh me too, so much.
Thanks for walking this out with me, Pic.

By the way, have you ever finished Game of Thrones?

[Lori]

Really great thoughts on the series and the trajectory of the spin-offs. I really like that Carol will not be w/Daryl and do wonder where this thing will go. I personally believe they can easily resurrect the Connie connection if the actress hadn't already accepted other intense work.

Is there another bromance NR might try to bring into the fold? And what of Andy and that spin-off?

I think your Negan ending would be completely appropriate and an acceptable way to do away with him. However...if they need him for NR's sidekick in the new series they may have him save the day and disappear down a hole until he pops up like a prairie dog.

[Lori]

I finished GOT! Wow! Now that was quite a series. I quit because I found it too violent and sexually twisted with all kinds of torture and references, but my kiddos talked me back into it and I bonded. Plus, my sister also prodded me forward and she is a better person than me, as are you. Really masterful. I dreamed of John Snow one nite as a matter of fact...

[Dee]

Really great thoughts on the series and the trajectory of the spin-offs. I really like that Carol will not be w/Daryl and do wonder where this thing will go. I personally believe they can easily resurrect the Connie connection if the actress hadn't already accepted other intense work.

and every finger crossed!!!

Is there another bromance NR might try to bring into the fold? And what of Andy and that spin-off?

God only knows, they’re not saying anything about that. I wish they just announced that they’re not doing those stupid movies, but instead another little spin-off mini-series to show what happened to him and how Michonne finds him.

I think your Negan ending would be completely appropriate and an acceptable way to do away with him. However...if they need him for NR's sidekick in the new series they may have him save the day and disappear down a hole until he pops up like a prairie dog.

Lol. I vehemently object to Negan becoming Daryl’s sidekick. I don’t want it. The actors are such good friends in real life, I don’t want to see that spill into their acting, as it already has on one occasion and I hated it. Let Negan go off with Maggie, and have a hero’s death to save someone important, to justify his existence after Rick had decided to keep him alive.

[Dee]

I finished GOT! Wow! Now that was quite a series. I quit because I found it too violent and sexually twisted with all kinds of torture and references, but my kiddos talked me back into it and I bonded. Plus, my sister also prodded me forward and she is a better person than me, as are you. Really masterful. I dreamed of John Snow one nite as a matter of fact...

Jon Snow? You don’t say….
So so pretty and such an all round wonderful human being. And so hard done by the series.



I loved the series right up until episode 3 of the final season when things have started slipping for me … to end up in a colossal shitfest.

The fans of the show are dramatically divided on the ending. I firmly fall into the group of those who absolutely HATED the ending. Mostly what they did to Dani, Jaime and Tyrion’s characters … all pretty unforgivable for me. Not to mention the farcical choice of sitting Bran Stark of all people on the Iron Throne at the end. Just beyond ridiculous. I’m almost finding the ending ruining the whole series - I feel so strongly about it.
I think I might have ranted a lot about this at the time in our GoT thread.

Are you one of those lucky people who feel ok about the end?

[Lori]

The ending did not sit well with me but not to the extent it ruined the entire series. I think I am a victim of low expectations ever since TVD slipped into the dumpster at the end of the series...well the last couple of years of the series to be honest. I agree with the critique 100%.

I think I know how they get Daryl and "Negan" in a series together: Daryl is shocked when Negan seems to be resurrected. While Daryl has just finished tanning a hide and cooking up a delightful dinner for Connie on a fire, "Negan" appears out of nowhere with dessert and a guitar. Daryl spins semi-gracefully and shoots an arrow from his crossbow through "Negan's" shoulder. They then discover he is really Negan's identical twin brother who is everything Negan could not be. Daryl searches every inch of Negan's body for a tattoo resembling a baseball bat that needs a good shaving but finds nothing. Folk songs and fire-dancing ensue.

[Dee]

The ending did not sit well with me but not to the extent it ruined the entire series. I think I am a victim of low expectations ever since TVD slipped into the dumpster at the end of the series...well the last couple of years of the series to be honest. I agree with the critique 100%.

Ok, great. It’s nice to know we agree on the ending, but I’m glad it hasn’t caused you unresolvable anger over art being ruined! You’ve learnt your lesson well with TVD not to trust. I thought I had too, but then fell victim to GoT’s completely unparalleled brilliance of the early seasons. I honestly thought this was art at such levels that could not possibly be ruined. How wrong I was. But I think my overpowering feeling now is just sadness, for all the actors who’ve all done such amazing work on the show, the costumes, the scenery, all the crew, investing ten years of their lives into this project to creat something truly breathtaking. Then the ridiculous, rushed writing of the final season with more concern about unexpected twists and just getting it over with than writing organic and well earned endings to storylines and characters… Oh well. I think I have finally learnt my lesson too. Only a tv show, right?

Much as I love TWD, I’m less concerned about the ending. I consider it as “a” possible ending (the comics have ended a certain way, which cannot be followed on tv as many key characters are already dead or gone on the tv show, whilst key characters on the tv show were killed off in the comics, or never existed. Daryl for example.) So as along as they give us something plausible, I’m ok.

I think I know how they get Daryl and "Negan" in a series together: Daryl is shocked when Negan seems to be resurrected. While Daryl has just finished tanning a hide and cooking up a delightful dinner for Connie on a fire, "Negan" appears out of nowhere with dessert and a guitar. Daryl spins semi-gracefully and shoots an arrow from his crossbow through "Negan's" shoulder. They then discover he is really Negan's identical twin brother who is everything Negan could not be. Daryl searches every inch of Negan's body for a tattoo resembling a baseball bat that needs a good shaving but finds nothing. Folk songs and fire-dancing ensue.

There aren’t enough and adequate emojis to express my rainbow reaction to this!!

Hilarious, Mz L. A “good shaving”? My eyes, my eyes!!! Images you’ve put in there!

But yeah, you’ve made my point beautifully, this is the only way it could work!