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Book #4 - And the Mountains Echoed by Khaled Hosseini

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Dee
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Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:02 am

Chapter 9


Of course I wondered the whole time, how this reunion was going to happen. I had full trust in Hosseini that he would do it justice, and stay well clear of any hint of Hollywood. And he did.

As much as I fully anticipated Abdullah's life be heavily affected by the loss of his sister, I never expected the part Abdullah's daughter, Pari was going to play in the story. How she became a little bit of a happy reprise for him of the bond he once had with his sister. How beautiful that has made Pari's early childhood. And how much it has trapped her and clipped her wings later on. How you can love someone with all your heart and be still unable to see or do what's best for them.

The most unexpected part was Pari envisioning little Pari as her imaginary twin sister. This was an amazing tribute to Abdullah's undying love and longing for his sister, because it was his loving descriptions of Pari that have created the image for his daughter the first place. How Pari was "giving" dreams of his happy childhood memories to her father, broke my heart. And I loved how she was going to do the same for Pari herself, at the every end of the story.

Some things are sadly never to happen, we all must come to terms with the harsh realities of life. It was too late for Abdullah, he never got a moment of clarity to rejoice in his sister finding him. But at least we know he found a lot of happiness in his daughter. It's crazy how important it becomes to us to learn people, even fictional characters, get the happiness they deserve.

Pari was also denied of a fully reciprocated union with her brother, and sadly, of any real memory of him from her childhood as well. She was simply too young to remember. And by the time she reached him, Abdullah's memories were deeply buried in the recesses of his mind.

But he kept the box of feathers for her. With a beautiful note attached. And even without accessing the memories, Pari has understood the meaning of the feathers, of the note, how her brother has loved and cherished her memory all his life, right until his ability to remember has finally failed him.

And the unexpected gift of young Pari finding her aunt and with her a new family and opportunities was wonderful. It was also lovely to know, that this beautiful, dutiful woman who has sacrificed everything for her parents, will finally get a chance to spread her wings.

I loved the book. All of it. Hosseini is a masterful writer.

One other little thing I got to really enjoy in his writing is the random descriptions of bystanders, people on the street, playing pingpong or having a picnic... People who could have been us. Whilst all these extraordinary moments were unfolding all around them, unbeknownst to them, whilst they were getting on with their everyday lives. It makes you think, what we could unearth about people around us in a park, bus stop, queue at the post office... if only we could magically see into their lives.

And perhaps we are all having extraordinary lives.


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Dee
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Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:36 pm

I'm looking forward to your thought, Ladies.

I'd also be interested to know which chapter and character has captured you most?

Spoiler:
For me, it's gotta be the chapter with Nabi's letter. For character, I'm going to choose Abdullah, both as a child and as an old man. He broke my heart over and over.

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Moonchime
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Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:59 am

Dee wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:26 am


Nabi was a wonderfully rich character, such a treat to read his long recount of what happened from his point of view. It was a complete surprise to me that it was in fact his initial idea that the Wahdatis should adopt Pari. And even though there was some selfish interest at the heart of this suggestion, he truly believed that his proposal would benefit everyone in the long run.
His only regret was separating the siblings, because even he sensed that was something extraordinary and sacred.
I agree that Nabi was a very well drawn character and one of the easiest to know. As for his decision to suggest the adoption of Pari I wonder if it would have occurred to him if there hadn't been the burning desire to give Nila something no other man could. Yes he felt it would benefit all, but such was his love for her that he chose not to dwell on the reality of what it might mean to his familiy.
I agree he was a good man at heart but sometimes wrapped up in his own world and desires; it took him a long time to try to make some sort of amends for the rift he had caused to his own family and for the weight that he carried with him. Deep in his heart he believed that Pari should know the truth and eventually he does something about that; but what if he hadn't and what if his condition had not been carried out?
I think it was a great sadness that his action severed him from his family.


He comes across as a very human man whose actions had consequences he could not possibly have imagined. Interesting and tragic then that the "gift" of Pari to Nila did not fulfil her as he hoped it would. She leaves the house and life in Afghanistan behind never to see him again. His life centres around Suleiman and eventually when he smothers him I scarcely gave it a second thought; somehow his mercy killing does not have the same flavour of unease that beset Parwana's; perhaps that 's because Suleiman was at his natural end but Masooma should have been in her prime.

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Moonchime
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Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:59 am

Dee wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:31 am

His character observations are deliciously engaging.
Everyone comes to life from the pages, without fail.


I absolutely agree Dee he is wonderful at filling out his characters and giving you insights that make you feel that you really know them; sometimes he does it with only a little description such as when he describes Saboor as a "closed off man by nature" I found that such a powerful phrase that lets you envisage exactly what he means.

He also captures so beautifully the way in which older people sometimes talk about the past and the things they love; the way some talked about Shadbagh and how sweet the water tasted; you feel the passage of time and the traces it leaves.


Nila' personality has been fully explored now, and without Nabi's rose tainted glasses, she doesn't fare very well in making herself likeable, not that she would care much either way. It's a great pity to learn she couldn't find happiness in raising the little girl she had taken from her family. A tragic character: so vast was her selfishness, she could never really connect to anyone in her entire life.
Yes I felt the same way about Nila - so self- absorbed and not able to find contentment in the role of motherhood that she had so sorely sought after. I think what I found the hardest thing to accept was the fact that she lied to Pari - claiming she had had a Ceasarian section having her thereby denying her any truth about her background and family. It is one thing to adopt a child but to lie to that child I think is wrong unless there are very good reasons for it and off the cuff I'm not sure what they would be. She was a very sad woman indeed.

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Moonchime
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Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:03 am

Dee wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:30 am
Chapter 8

And we had yet another story to illustrate how people must cope with the fate that has been dealt to them. Juxtaposed with Markos' story, who is the most adventurous character in the entire book, and the one blessed with the greatest freedom to shape his own destiny.
He has achieved so much. Yet, there is a twinge of sadness about him. He hasn't married, hasn't fathered children, and he lives a very long way from the two people he cares most about in the world. A man who has decided, quite possibly subconsciously, to devote himself to work and charity.
Indeed it is true that there is an air of sadness about him and that is true about so many of the characters in the book although it's certainly the case that some are much sadder than others. Interesting that Markos has a good job and wants for nothing and yet he does not seem totally fulfilled.
Hosseini fills the book with so many interesting characters in very different walks of life and varying wealth and yet so few are happy.

In chapter 7 Adel finds out some awful truths about his father which end the innocence of his childhood through the knowledge that life is not as he thought it was. Despite all the riches at his disposal he and his mother are prisoners of his father in more ways than one, and yet his father no doubt loves them both; indeed believes he is doing the best by them; he creates his own narrative.

Throughout the book we are faced with the theme of what moral behaviour is and how that impacts on the decisions we make. Does the end justify the means sometimes/always/never?
When do one person's rights outweigh those of another?

I too enjoyed the book and particularly love the first part of it where it is set in Afghanistan; for me that is where it burns the brightest.
Spoiler:
I'm unsure about a particular chapter especially as it is some time since I finished it. I did enjoy reading Nabi's story and indeed the first chapters where we get such full descriptions of Abdullah and Pari and of Saboor when he was young; before his spirit and body were broken.

Favourite character is probably Abdullah, because we get such a wonderful sense of his ability to love.

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Dee
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Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:34 pm

So lovely to hear your thoughts, Moonchime. :x

Spoiler:
Before I started this post, I had gone through all my gibberish to correct Nabi's name! What's wrong with me? :roll: :roll: :roll:
It is such a difficult thing to pass judgement on what Nabi did, isn't it? Yes, his main motivation was to make Nila happy and to put himself in the role of the one who made her happy when no one else could, and he hoped Nila would love him for figuring out what she needed.

Initially, it looked like at least he managed to make Nila happy. Even Suleiman. And Pari settled into her new life quickly as well. But Nabi didn't benefit from Nila's gratitude, in fact after a few years he lost both of them. By which time he had lost touch with his own family who couldn't bare to see him and be reminded of what they had agreed to. And Nila proved to be a lost cause, she was incapable of happiness.

Yet. Pari survived. Not only survived, she was given many opportunities, got a good education, and she escaped having to live under the Taliban. She was loved, even if this love came with caveats. Nila probably did way better in her life with Pari than she would have done without her.
Suleiman's life was also made richer by having Pari in it for a few years. There were some positives at least.

I think it's very hard for us to fully understand Nabi's proposal, and it might seem more callous to us than it actually was, in that time, in that culture. How we think about children, what they mean to their parents, especially what our own children mean to us, it's not quite the same how people in extreme poverty and hardship might be feeling about their children. Much as they love them dearly, they might need to rise above this love in order to save them, to provide them with a better chance of survival, or opportunities to get a better life than what the birth parents could possibly offer to them. Love can become a sentimentality that could potentially get in the way of rational thinking that could save a child's life. Saboor's family just lost an infant to the harsh winter. I think the thinking here on Saboor's side was very much along the lines that he couldn't get love get in the way of him making the right decision for his daughter, and at the same time, with a bit more money, increase the chances of his other children's survival, improve their circumstances. I know, it sounds horrific to have to think this way. We are so damn lucky we never had to.

From Nabi's point of view, who had no children of his own, this arrangement must have made even more sense. Even if he had some bad feelings about splitting up the family. I think he genuinely thought everyone would get over the initial sadness relatively quickly. Only when he got to witness the anxiety of the children did he realise that perhaps this was not something that anyone could get over that easily.

I agree with you that he was slow to to make things right. He shouldn't have waited to the end of his life to make contact with Pari. He should have tried to find her and Abdullah much sooner. He had a bad conscience about this, and he struggled to find the right time and right way to deal with it. What he did was far from the best solution, but at least he did what he did. And thankfully Markos could be trusted.

I also agree with you on Nabi helping Sulaiman to die. It was the humane thing to do. Parwana's sister wasn't really ready to die. Parwana acted selfishly. Nabi carried out a very sick, dying man's fervent last wish.


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Dee
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Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:33 pm

Completely agree about Nila, she should have told the truth to Pari about her adoption, absolutely.

I thought she would tell the interviewer, you know. Nila was on a roll, discussing the most intimate and private things with the journalist, and I thought that she would actually tell him, and that's how Pari would find out. I wish she had... Pari might have found Abdullah sooner. :73:

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Dee
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Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:34 pm

I too enjoyed the book and particularly love the first part of it where it is set in Afghanistan; for me that is where it burns the brightest.
I agree, and love how you've worded this.

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Dee
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Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:48 pm

Throughout the book we are faced with the theme of what moral behaviour is and how that impacts on the decisions we make. Does the end justify the means sometimes/always/never?

These are the Big Questions, the really hard ones, are they not? I think sometimes the end does justify the means... the finger for the hand... Sometimes harsh sacrifices have to be made. There are some devastating scenarios in life, desperate no-win situations. Lucky are those who never have to make such decisions.

When do one person's rights outweigh those of another?


I guess, when that person is purer. But in reality, mostly when they're more valuable to the people the others. That can be both a good or a bad thing.

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Moonchime
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Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:46 am

Dee wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:34 pm
Spoiler:
Before I started this post, I had gone through all my gibberish to correct Nabi's name! What's wrong with me? :roll: :roll: :roll:
Nothing's wrong with you Honeybun - just falling over yourself to get your thoughts down. :57:


Yet. Pari survived. Not only survived, she was given many opportunities, got a good education, and she escaped having to live under the Taliban. She was loved, even if this love came with caveats. Nila probably did way better in her life with Pari than she would have done without her.
Suleiman's life was also made richer by having Pari in it for a few years. There were some positives at least.


Yes Pari did get opportunities she would not otherwise have had; education and comfort and freedoms she would have struggled with in Afghanistan. As for being loved, I suspect she would have felt more cherished in her original family than with Nila, however there can be little doubt that the situation afforded her a more privileged life than she would otherwise have had.
Having said that Abdullah did reasonably well for himself and his family despite the same beginnings, although maybe that would have been different if Pari had remained in the family.
Furthermore we have tales of awful suffering of others who were still in Afghanistan so it is clear that it was never going to be easy; certainly if your basic physical needs are not met than there is no contest.

I think it's very hard for us to fully understand Nabi's proposal, and it might seem more callous to us than it actually was, in that time, in that culture. How we think about children, what they mean to their parents, especially what our own children mean to us, it's not quite the same how people in extreme poverty and hardship might be feeling about their children. Much as they love them dearly, they might need to rise above this love in order to save them, to provide them with a better chance of survival, or opportunities to get a better life than what the birth parents could possibly offer to them. Love can become a sentimentality that could potentially get in the way of rational thinking that could save a child's life.


I know exactly what you are getting at here but in fact I don't think real love does get in the way - in fact I think it is only real love that could make the choice Saboor made; love does not act for the self but always for the welfare and happiness of the loved. And that - I would say - is the same for any parent anywhere. It was the same for the parents of those being evacuated in wars in not-too-distant past and those in wars of the present.
Sentimentality is not the same as love and can definitely obstruct its course.



David Attenborough says that only humans now expect (at least in wealthy countries) all their offspring to survive. In the past, and in some places now, I think a hardness of attitude helped to protect people from the heartbreak of loss; an attempt to detach oneself until the certainty that a child shows signs of surviving.

As you say Dee it is a blessing indeed that we do not face such issues on a regular basis.

I think you are right in saying that sometimes the ends do justify the means - although once you say that it does open up a can of worms. Maybe it's a numbers problem - what is the best solution for the largest number of people?
I guess, when that person is purer,
By purer do you mean "innocent?"

I think some people waive their respect of their rights if they totally ignore those of others. I suppose such a question is central to how a nation/government decides on laws and consequences.
Difficult eh?

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Lori
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Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:17 am

I'm behind you all (surprised?) but am listening on audio. Will pipe in soon....just got to the uncle part. shit.

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Dee
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Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:02 am

Lori wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:17 am
I'm behind you all (surprised?) but am listening on audio. Will pipe in soon....just got to the uncle part. shit.

No worries, Mz L, we will wait for you! :x


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